ICED: What The Feck We Think…

Spoilers ahoy!!

If you have not read Iced, go back! Turn away! Thar be spoilers ahead! 

Iced Karen Marie Moning

Last chance! Spoilers are happening. You have been warned. Look away. 


Jen: A couple of days ago we discussed ICED: How the feck we felt.  After giving everyone some time to read the book and speculate we also want to talk about what we think.  Anyone who has read the Fever series spent several years of their lives questioning up from down and left from right.  Now Ms. Moning has done it again.  I will have to say that I turned the final pages of Iced and sat back very satisfied with the book.  I was happy with how it was playing out.  And then I thought for a minute, and a minute longer, and that minute turned into a day and that with that day came speculation from others as well.  So now here we are and we must discuss what happened and our theories.  We want to know who Dani’s HEA is and how/why you think it will be like that!

Sophia: I want to be very clear here. We desperately want Ryodan to be Dani’s HEA. We’re romance readers and that’s how it works right? He’s mysterious, Alpha and fuck-off scary. And sexy, don’t forget sexy. He has to be the HEA. But, right after I finished ICED I was immediately struck with this thought: He’s NOT the love interest!! And my mind started reeling back, thinking about everything that happened and how Ryodan’s behavior could be construed as either simply protective, the way a brother would protect a sister, or romantically/sexually. It’s been driving me crazy ever since. So YOU need to tell us why Ryodan is, or why he is not Dani’s HEA.

Here is what we know…or don’t know:

Why Ryodan IS the HEA

He is Ryodan. Duh. He is to Dani what Barrons was to Mac. Right?  How can the biggest bad of the book not be the HEA?  Is this just wishful thinking on our part?

Back in Dreamfever, we get these quotes from Ryodan. They are when he is talking to Mac.

“Never seen anything like her, and I‘ve seen a lot.”


“Eternal life breeds eternal patience. If you lived long enough, you might feel that if today amuses, today is good.”

“Does today amuse, Ryodan?”

His lips curved. He looked back at Dani and, after a moment, nodded.

“It does. More than it has in recent … years.”

“She‘s thirteen.”

“Time will remedy that.”

The problem is most any quote we’ve picked out here to show that Ryodan IS Dani’s HEA, could also be interpreted from a different angle. Re-read the quotes as if Ryodan is simply interested in Dani because she has similar abilities to him and he wants to mold her, and teach her. Be her mentor? With Karen Marie Moning at the helm, you just never know.

“The more excited I get, the more I vibrate.”

“Now there’s a thought,” Lor says.

“If you mean what I think you mean, you want to shut the fuck up and never think it again,” Ryodan says.”

This could be jealously on Ryodan’s part, or could it be protective as a brother or uncle.

“Patience and persistence aren’t mutually exclusive. You have no idea how patient I am. When I want something.”

Again, he could want Dani romantically, or he has plans for her and her abilities.

“No one but me is ever going to teach you, Dani.”

He touches me before I see it coming, has his hand under my chin, turning my face up. My shiver is instant and uncontrollable.

“That’s non-negotiable. You signed a contract with me that grants exclusivity. You won’t like it if you try to break it.”


Poor Dani. She’s 14 yet so beyond 14. She’s conflicted and doesn’t understand what she feels about Ryodan.

From Karen Marie Moning:

Q. Dani is 14, but not a regular 14. We’re you ever like I better pull back?
A. Never. And if I do I’ll push past that… Just keep the faith.

I know that when he has sex he laughs like the world is a perfect place. And when he did that, my hands curled into fists because I thought about touching his face like maybe I could catch joy in my hands and hold it.

My mind flashes straight back to level four and I see him behind that woman again and he groans like he did that night, then he laughs, and I feel almost sick to my stomach remembering. I don’t know what’s wrong with me. I wish I’d never fecking gone down to level four!

Why Ryodan is NOT Dani’s HEA

Jo. Ok, so logically we know that Ryo is not going to wait for Dani to come of age but why Jo?  What is he playing at? Dani is too young for anything sexual but why does it seem he is rubbing Jo in her face? Jo is way too lame for Ryodan so why? Ryodan is epic, Jo is not. When Dani came back smelling like Christian, Ryodan about blew a fuse but he can flaunt his woman in front of her? There has to be something else here. Ryodan and Jo had their “month” when Dani was in Faery with Christian so it isn’t about making Dani jealous.

When Dani confronted her about sleeping with Ryodan she was very reluctant to discuss it or stamp out the discussion. She seemed conflicted. Instead of telling Dani to butt out and sticking to that, she kept saying things like, “It’s complicated.” Is there isn’t more to this coupling? More than just convenient sex. Ryodan has his pick of any woman in his club at any time and is he keeping Jo close for a reason?

Ryodan and his men don’t let anyone into their business. In the scene where they destroy the IFP there was no reason for Jo to be there. Yet Ryodan allowed her to stay and even acted protective of her. Again, why? Jen points out that we see this from Dani’s point of view so perhaps he is not being protective? It’s the way Dani perceives it? But again, why is she there?

Is Ryodan somehow related to Dani? Or does he feel some sort of kinship toward her? For all the references to Dani and Ryodan very few of them have a sexual slant coming from Ryodan’s perspective. ←-Important? There is talk about the woman she will become but that could be as a proud relation not necessarily as a lover.

From the Iced Q&A with Ms. Moning we know he isn’t her father, or at least she says this:

Q. Will we learn anything about Dani’s father?
A. No.

Hopefully there is no gray area there.

Why wouldn’t the nine demand that Dani be killed for knowing about them being immortal? Everyone wanted to kill Mac as soon as she found out and nobody blinks when Dani knows. And yet when she mentions something in front of Jo, Ryodan freeze frames her away to shut her up and warns Dani that Jo will be killed if she knows.

Because what he showed me is that he sees the same things in her I do.  He knows she’s worth waiting for.  And when it’s time, he intends to be the one.  That’s why he’s keeping her close.

This quote is as close we get to there being a future between Ryodan and Dani.  But this is Christian speaking and we all know that he is coo-coo for cocoa puffs at that point. Because we don’t get Ryodan’s POV we have no idea what is going on in his head.

Why do we not know what Ryodan looks like?  Dani comments about him standing in the shadows multiple times or always with the light behind him. All we know for sure is that he has very clear eyes. When Barrons was our hero (or whatever you want to call him) we had a very clear description of what he looked like. Maybe that is because he was seen through Mac’s eyes and it was sexual?  But it strikes me as odd that we do not have a clear picture of what Ryodan’s physical features are, if he is to be our HEA.

Why Christian could be the HEA

Yes, he is crazy and getting crazier as the days go by.  But….

Just one time before I turn into the villain of this piece, just one time before I become the fourth and final Unseelie prince, I want to be her Highlander. And her hero.

What is his purpose in this book if it isn’t tied to the HEA?  V’lane/Cruce was our bad guy in Fever and he was the dirty Fae.  Can Ms. Moning really have the bad guy being Fae again?  Especially when Christian was beloved to us before this.

Wouldn’t Dani be pri-ya if she sexed it up with Christian? — No, because she is Mega. She is a super-hero?

Why Christian could NOT be the HEA

He is crazy. He kills people with his peen.  Wouldn’t she be pri-ya if she sexed it up with Christian?  The dead lady was a little disturbing but hysterical.

“I’m not going anywhere until you’re safe,” Christian says to me, real quiet.

“Isn’t that quaint. The chivalrous Unseelie prince with the dick of death,” Ryodan mocks.

When Christian goes off into coo-coo land he starts to sound like the Unseelie King talking about his concubine.

I want to lock her up somewhere I can keep her safe forever. Someplace white and shining and beautiful, where nothing ever goes wrong.


I can’t stand the thought of her dying. If I knew how, I would make her Fae so she would never die. Doesn’t matter that I hate being it myself, or that she would, too. Immortality is immortality.

Is the Unseelie King at work here? This could explain some of Christian’s insanity and obsession with Dani. Christian couldn’t be the HEA then right?

Also, he isn’t Ryodan.

Why Dancer Could be the HEA

Dani is most comfortable with Dancer. He is a friend to her. She is repeatedly saying how things aren’t “like that” with them but I think Dancer wants them like that.  He could sneak up on her.

“He closes his hand around mine and I hold on. I like his hand. It’s big and holds easy but sure. It’s the kind of hold that says, I got you if you want me, but I’ll let you go if you feel like running for a while.”

Dancer is closest in age to Dani.  There have been many questions about this book being YA.  IMO, it would suck as YA but it is possible for Dani’s HEA to be YA.  Dancer would be a way for Ms. Moning to make it be a little safer?

Why Dancer is NOT the HEA

We know virtually nothing about Dancer.  He is obviously not as innocuous as he seems. But who or what is he?  Until we get more info, we just don’t know. Basically all we know is this:

He survived the fall of the wall on his own with no special abilities outside of being super smart. He continues to survive in very dangerous world, with no known special abilities.

Why did he just happen upon the scene when Dani nearly froze to death and he saved her life? Ryodan was there because he took Dani there. Christian? He was there because he a crazy-ass stalker. But why did Dancer happen to be there of all places in Dublin? Suspicious.

Also, he isn’t Ryodan.

So these are the three contenders for Dani’s HEA. But who knows? Maybe KMM will blow us out of the water and the HEA will be Lor? LOL

Time to discuss.

Who is Dani’s HEA and why?

There is so much to discuss in this book so if you have other theories throw them out there.


  1. says

    Ryodan. No other option, IMO.

    1. It’s Ryodan. He is complicated, stone cold, but when it comes to Dani.. I feel there is something there, but will wait.

    2. Foreshadowing… Dreamfever, ring a bell?

    3. Because Karen doesn’t do easy relationships. She likes dark, twisted and complicated. She likes the build up to something.

    4. Ryodan is in the book as a main character just as much as Dani. It feels like he is the Barrons type character for this series.

    5. The chemistry between them. Is so unlike any of the other males, and something that will grow and expand upon.

    6. They challenge one another. She isn’t scared of him. When they are with one another, it’s like nobody else in the world exists.

    7. Because he is helping, changing and making her better. He believes in her, and understands who she is.


    9. Ryodan also needs his HEA.

    10. Its RYODAN!

    • says

      3. Because Karen doesn’t do easy relationships. She likes dark, twisted and complicated. She likes the build up to something.

      And we LOVE her for it!!

    • Angela says

      I agree… But some of the stuff between Ryodan and the beotch who will not be named threw me off..

      Show Spoiler »

      especially at the end, during the holding hands, “snuggle” moment when they are waiting for the big show down

      . Is KMM trying to make us think about it or torture us? Or both?

      It’s gotta be Ryodan, Christian is too crazy right now (although I still loves him) and Dancer isn’t epic enough for Dani.

    • Krista says

      Lol, love #10!

      At first I though Ryodan was too obvious of a choice for Dani, but then I realized Barrons was the obvious choice for Mac. So, I think it’s Ryo too.

  2. May says

    It isn’t Christian. He may have his own series/purpose down the road. That’s my guess. His redemption and hea are long away. He is too obsessed with her in a “this ain’t true love” way to be the hea. Odd as it sounds, Dani is further along and more ready than he is.

    My money is on Ryodan because it is the twistiest and most complicated choice. It doesn’t seem like it could be Dancer he’s just not a leading man!

  3. MelanieL says

    I’m for Dancer. We’ve barely seen Ryo until this point. Dancer we’ve just met. We’ve got two more books to see things develop more with Dancer.

    I have suspicions that Dancer is more than he seems. He may be just as epic as Dani.

  4. says

    Whew. I just finished the book. I’ve been dying to read this review *almost* as much as I was the book.
    So, here’s my take…
    Ryodan is the HEA.
    Why do I think this? The same reasons you all do.
    OK, so what’s with Jo?
    Well, Ryodan was shaking while feeding Dani, right? He had to go “take care of himself”. Clearly, he has little choice but to have sex. Jo was “the one” that night. Before that, it was a number of other women. But, Dani saw them. She got upset. I imagine Ryodan likes to have the ability to affect Dani – any way he can. It’s another “power” over her, if you will. I can’t know for sure, because, like Barrons, Ryodan has an epic mind and surprises me at every turn. That being said, Dani likes to play it cool. Like nothing ever really affects her. But there were a few times Dani showed emotion toward Ryodan, most of those times were related to his “relationship” to Jo. My guess is that it pleases him to know it bothers Dani. I have no doubt that he is holding out for Dani. He’ll drop Jo as soon as he can have Dani.
    Another possibility is he knows Dani will talk to Jo more openly than she will him or his men. He also has Jo eating out of his pants…er, hand, so she will tell him all he wants to know about Dani. She’s a good lay AND an information source. Win/win. BUT, because of her feelings for him, she probably wouldn’t stay there and watch him choose different women every night. She would leave, go back to the abby. If she does that, he no longer has the threat of killing Jo if Dani doesn’t “behave”. He would also lose his info source.
    I could be completely wrong… It’s just theories.

    • Susan says

      okay, just finished the book 20 mins ago so still digesting everything. I’m pretty much in agreement with Kristy’s point of view on the whole thing. I think Ryo needs to have sex to possibly keep his beast under control or whatever it is he has going on. I liked Dani is this book although she did have to grow on me. I think it will be interesting to see how she grows over the next couple of books. I heard KM says that she loses her virginity at 17 so there is a lot that can happen in 3 years at that point in life. Ummm Dancer…yes I do like him though…he sounds like he has mystery and a future as an Alpha somewhere just don’t want it to be with Dani. Although, I do think he would be the perfect person for her to lose her virginity with…he would be sweet and loving. Having a hard time imagining Ryo in any other way that erotic sexy but hey who knows. He seems to definitely feel something for Dani. Personally I think the guys do not feel the need to kill Dani for knowing about them is because…dum dum dum dummmmm…I think she is like them in more ways than speed. She made a comment to Ryo about wanting to be immortal like him and he says ask me again when you are older…bottom line I think the chemistry between Dani and Ryodan is intense and that is what we like to see in a relationship. Not safe and comfortable like Dancer or sick and twisted like Christian. Plus they are both superheros! 😉

      It’s gonna be a long year!

    • Krista says

      Oh, so well put on the Jo issue! I didn’t even think that he might be pumping her (teehee, sorry I couldn’t resist) for information!
      I also wondered if Ryo’s beast has more of an uncontrollable sexual need. I just re-read the scene after she got Iced and if you notice, Dani kind of had a cutesy goodbye scene with Dancer in front of Ryo BEFORE Ryo gave to nod to Jo. I wonder if watching another guy fawn over Dani was the last straw over Ryo’s control of his beast after seeing Dani almost die.
      I think the campfire cuddle with Jo was another way for Ryo to bother her and get her attention. He did have Christian and Dancer to compete with at that scene. And maybe I’m reading too much into it, but the second Dani ditched Dancer with the sidhe-seers, Ryo was right behind her to ditch Jo.
      Man, I fecking love this series!!!!

  5. Jamie B. says

    Really enjoyed reading the great ideas here! I finished the book two days ago and my mind is still spinning! Who (if anyone) will be Dani’s HEA? My thoughts and observations….Ryodan- Mentor like figure similar to Barrons in the Fever books. Was assuming he would be Dani’s HEA in beginning of book but now….relationship with Jo is difficult to swallow. Don’t forget that Jo is a sister figure to Dani. Will Dani be able to get past the relationship between Ryo and Jo ( let’s not forget the visual) to have any type of romantic relationship with Ryo herself? More importantly, will the reader be able to get past it? KMM is not dumb. She knew how the reader would feel about a Ryo/Jo hookup. I definitely think there is a bigger picture here and other motivations (remember Ryodan says to Dani that she can’t see the forest for the trees). Ryo never in word or deed acted inappropriately with Dani. Maybe a brother? I don’t like the thought much either but am throwing it out there.
    Christian- Devolving into Unseelie and becoming a wack job in the process. So sad. Holding on to the hope that he will somehow be saved. I loved his character in the Fever series. Don’t think he will be a serious contender for Dani’s affections though.
    Dancer- Maybe most likely choice. Not epic…. yet. It is implied that he has powers &/or talents that have yet to be revealed (that may make him epic). He is age appropriate. He is already close to Dani and she admits at the end that she thinks he is “hot”. As Kat reads his emotions it is revealed that his feelings for her are beyond friendship.
    I want Ryo for Dani. Just unclear at this point how that can happen. Maybe she will not wind up with any of them. Ugh…. another year! Dude!

  6. Krista says

    I think Ryo’s protectiveness is because she’s still young and he wants Dani to still have some sort of a childhood before she completely grows up. I mean, he’s one of the few people who know that she spent her entire childhood in a cage, watching tv!

    As for Jo (who I hate!!!!), I think he is just using her as a way to gauge Dani’s feeling for him. First, as a way to see if she had any for him and, second, as a way to see when those feeling really develop into sexual feelings. As to why Jo? Who knows. Maybe he didn’t even realize that Dani would care that they were getting it on (he is kind of the definition of jaded when it comes to sex and women) and when he noticed her strong reactions, he used Jo to his advantage.

    Of course, Dancer would be a good fit for Dani in real life, but this is book world we’re talking about! I think he is a little boring and KMM needs to step it up with the dark secrets to keep him in the running.

  7. Grace says

    Dudes!!!!ryodan is HEA!! Because Jo is just a pastime he sees nothing in her but sex. He is going to boink other women until dani grows up! Jo is just a tempory thing lor and Jo will probably start boinking each other for chrisakes!!! Christian is bats**t crazy so it’s not him and dancer is a friend nothing more!! Plus he not cool enough for dani!! Ryodan is HEA